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Favorite geo projects?

posted by Satri on Monday September 26, @02:51PM   Printer-friendly   Email story  Permalink  Trackback URI  Slashdotthis  Diggthis  Del.icio.us
from the open-your-hearts dept.
Ask Slashgeo Open Source Community
Myself writes "Open question: What are your favorite open projects, where are they headed, and what do they need to get there? Allow me a moment to plug NASA's WorldWind project."
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  • Where is "there" + open projects in GIS/RS

    (Score:2, Informative)
    by Satri (3) on Monday September 26, @04:03PM (#13)
    ( http://alexandreleroux.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Friday March 17, @05:07PM )
    What are your favorite open projects, where are they headed, and what do they need to get there?

    Myself, where is your "there" in your «what do they need to get there»?

    Here are some of the open projects in GIS & RS that I know of.
    - GDAL: http://www.gdal.org/ [gdal.org]
    - OGR: http://www.gdal.org/ogr [gdal.org]
    Two great libraries for GIS & RS.
    In terms of open software:
    - GRASS GIS: http://grass.itc.it/ [grass.itc.it]
    - OSSIM: http://www.ossim.org/ [ossim.org]
    - Virtual Terrain Project: http://vterrain.org/ [vterrain.org]

    Other open software I never really used:
    - mapserver: http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ [umn.edu]
    - Thuban: http://thuban.intevation.org/ [intevation.org]
    - Multispec: http://dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu/~biehl/MultiSpec/ [purdue.edu]
    - Spring: http://www.dpi.inpe.br/spring/english/index.html [dpi.inpe.br]
    - Chips: http://www.geogr.ku.dk/chips/ [geogr.ku.dk]
    - Earth 3D: http://www.earth3d.org/ [earth3d.org]
    - Java GeoTools: http://geotools.org/ [geotools.org]

    You might also take a look at:
    http://opensourcegis.org/ [opensourcegis.org]
    and
    http://cbc.rs-gis.amnh.org/guides/viewing_data/ope n_source.html [amnh.org]

    Well, that's a start ;-)

  • WorldWind rocks

    (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Voxel on Monday September 26, @04:08PM (#14)
    I interned at NASA this summer doing some programming for WorldWind. It's a really cool piece of software and the people behind it are awesome.

    • Re:WorldWind rocks

      (Score:2, Insightful)
      by Ben (62) on Monday September 26, @06:35PM (#17)
      ( http://vterrain.org/ )
      World Wind _is_ cool, in operation... but has some rather glaring drawbacks. Specifically the choice of "C#" and "managed D3D", which shuts out a whole world of interoperability, portability and developers that might otherwise find some use or take some interest in World Wind. It is, as they say in diplomatic circles, "regrettable."

      The developers deserve a lot of credit for getting World Wind functional and getting it out there. We can only wish they hadn't chosen evil empire lock-in.
      [ Parent ]

      • Re:WorldWind rocks

        (Score:2, Interesting)
        by Myself (55) on Monday September 26, @06:54PM (#19)
        I'm not a developer, but hanging out on #worldwind (irc.freenode.net) I've seen some discussion of an engine change.

        I don't know if it's going anywhere yet, but if you're a competent coder and want to pitch in, jump on the channel and say so. If there's a critical mass of people who not only want to move towards open standards, but are able and willing to help the transition, it's more likely to happen.
        [ Parent ]

      • Re:WorldWind rocks

        (Score:2, Informative)
        by adamhill (59) on Monday September 26, @10:18PM (#22)
        C'mon Ben, portability is mainly a function of resources and developer will. Chris has explained himself so many times on why he did C#/DX, we stuck it in the FAQ (http://www.worldwindcentral.com/wiki/World_Wind_F AQ#Why_did_you_decide_on_C.23_and_DirectX.3F [worldwindcentral.com])

        C#/.NET is also *very* portable, the *shut out* is just no one has had the itch to scratch in Linux/OSX land. The Mono Project has pretty much proven portability over the past 2 years. (http://go-mono.com/ [go-mono.com] In the World Wind community we've mainly had people that *want* a port but very few have stepped up to make it a reality. NLT is basically 3 people one of which is developer, so they have to go for the biggest bang for the buck.

        Cross platform 3D graphics exist in the .NET world as well. The Tao Framework provides OpenGL bindings at about the same level that JOGL does (that is to say, pretty close to the metal) and this has enabled the developer(s) of the Axiom project to port Ogre3D over to .NET. (http://realmforge.com/ [realmforge.com] This high level API actually provides OGL or DX 3D surface support at runtime. It is a moderate rocket science to abstract out all the things you need to wrap for Win/OSX/Linux support. But as evidenced by the engines that exist it is possible with a developer or two.

        Even if we dont do a low level porting, Norman Vine is very willing to help us with plugging in osgPlanet as a renderer. NLT seems to be predisposed to just do a Java/JOGL version in addition to the C# version, but developers will have to show up to make this happen. Once again, it is just a function of developer will.

        Less FUD, more LOVE. :-)
        [ Parent ]

        • Re:WorldWind rocks

          (Score:2, Interesting)
          by Ben (62) on Monday September 26, @10:46PM (#23)
          ( http://vterrain.org/ )
          Sorry Adam, i have to disagree. Portability isn't just a matter of "resources and will". It's a simple matter of building on other components which are themselves portable, and in this present day there are virtually no reasons left not to go that way. I cannot fathom why the WW authors deliberately chose to lock their software into a dead-end proprietary system. There is nothing remotely portable about C#/.NET. Mono is a embarassment and any grade-schooler can see C# is nothing but a transparent ploy by MS to take power away from Java. The only people using it are those who blindly run where MS says to walk. I read Chris's FAQ entry, and the bulk of it is baseless and incorrect, except for the part where he correctly points out that Java would also have been a poor choice. It would take a much larger email in a more convenient forum to set Chris straight on all the FUD and confused statements in that FAQ entry. There appears to be a strong NIH attitude by the WorldWind folks. For example, i am on dozens of mailing list for open-source software and geospatial issues, and not once has any WW person appeared. The lack of desire to build on the work of others is, to put it politely, puzzling. Move love and cooperation and less FUD would be welcome indeed.
          [ Parent ]

          • Re:WorldWind rocks

            (Score:2, Interesting)
            by adamhill (59) on Tuesday September 27, @12:11AM (#25)
            But building something or not is an obvious matter of resources, you have the time or not and will is reflected in the desire to learn the interoperability of DX and OGL programming API's and platform differences.(also related to how much time and people you have to throw at the problem.) So if you dont want to or have the resources it will not get done. Regardless if you are using C++/OGL or not. Portability is not free from a progtamming or build/release standpoint.

            I don't see how you can defend "nothing remotely portable about C#/.NET". MS gave the spec to ECMA it got ratified and has been implemented by 3rd parties. Its runs on desktops, PDA's, embedded devices and smart cards. Sounds portable to me.

            I can write a .NET app on OSX/Window/Linux and drag that binary image over to another OS that supports Mono or MS's flavor of .NET and it will run. What more do you want from the idea of portability? Granted, DX is absolutely not portable, some Framework classes are plain not written yet. But you have library dependency problems just the same in Linux/BSD/Solaris and a GUI app is even more problematic.(GTK# seems to be easiest solution) But the base 'write it using the libraies that are available/implemented on all the target OS's' form of cross platform works. Still sounding portable. Is there something else it needs?

            I too would like to see a .NET/OGL port, but once again people need to *want* it and show up to the ballgame to play.

            And hey we *do* have a Proj.4 plugin, so we will start standing on giants shoulders a little bit at a time.
            [ Parent ]

            • Re:WorldWind rocks

              (Score:2, Interesting)
              by Ben (62) on Tuesday September 27, @01:40AM (#26)
              ( http://vterrain.org/ )
              Adam,
              I'll try leaving aside the bizarre comments about .NET (write it on OS X?! run something with a 100MB overhead on a PDA?!) and focus on:

              > I too would like to see a .NET/OGL port, but once again people need to *want* it

              What i think you might want to realize is that .NET/OGL won't happen unless MS wants it to happen, and they've been trying to kill or sideline OGL for years. It's like deliberately sticking ones head into the lion's mouth, and insisting it's a friendly lion even after it's got a trail of dead bodies in its wake. It's got /nothing/ to do with what people want, and everything to do with MS being bad, wrong, evil.

              > And hey we *do* have a Proj.4 plugin, so we will start standing on giants shoulders a little bit at a time.

              That does sounds promising, i welcome any moves toward interoperability and sharing.
              Thanks,
              Ben
              [ Parent ]

              • Re:WorldWind rocks

                (Score:2, Interesting)
                by adamhill (59) on Tuesday September 27, @04:29AM (#27)
                >I'll try leaving aside the bizarre comments about .NET (write it on OS X?! run something with a 100MB overhead on a PDA?!) and focus on:

                Its not bizarre. First off, it shouldn't matter what OS you develop a cross platform apps in (even OSX) and .NET runs on PDA's just fine:

                Go check out (http://www.mono-project.com/Screenshots [mono-project.com]) there is a mix of trivial and non trivial .NET apps running on Windows/OSX/Linux. Especially (http://www.mono-project.com/Image:Medium-monodeve lop-macos.png [mono-project.com]) Thats right, a 100% .NET app running in OS/X with a GUI IDE building an app using the Glade toolkit, which was first developed on Linux.

                For a PDA example go see (http://www.brains-n-brawn.com/cfWorldWind [brains-n-brawn.com]) a port of World Wind to a PDA in 1 month. It is by no means a complete port, but it is an example of .NET and 3D on a very foriegn OS. All that the PDA needed was a 1G card to handle the Blue Marble dataset.

                So there you have multiple examples of cross-platformness, it is not theory, it is hard nosed reality, downloadable and verifieable by anyone with some time and two different OS's.

                Now for this bit:
                >What i think you might want to realize is that .NET/OGL won't happen unless MS wants it to happen,

                That is patently false. MS has no control of OGL running on 2000/XP. There are OGL apps, written in .NET runnable at your leisure, right now on Windows or Linux. See (http://realmforgewiki.castlegobs.nl/index.php/Run ning_Axiom_on_Linux [castlegobs.nl]) for examples of how to run Axiom, a cross platform, .NET 3D engine that uses OpenGL or DirectX, depending on your platform. I have it running in XP and Ubuntu.

                What makes this possible is the Tao Framework, a wrapper for OGL, SDL, GLUT and many other toolkits for audio/video/3d on the big 3 OS's (http://www.axiom3d.org/Axiom/linux1.png [axiom3d.org]) and (http://weblogs.asp.net/leedgitar/ [asp.net]) to hear it from the developers own mouth. Leedgitar did the port of Ogre3D to .NET. (Note the section that says "Whats even cooler is seeing the 3rd party assemblies (such as the Tao Framework) work on both Windows and Linux without recompilation.") Once again objective reality, verifiable by anyone. OGL/.NET can run on Windows OS's just fine.

                When it comes down to it, MS *does not* prevent apps/dll/API's from runnning in XP/2000. You may install any app/driver you like. They would have to lock down the whole OS and making only MS signed images run. And with the size of the MS OS behemoth that is a logistical/legal nightmare.

                And I have to disagree, if people *want* a program/driver/API for an OS that doesnt exist and it is technologically possible they *will* and they usually *do* build it if the itch is strong enough. I hold up the marvel that is Samba and Wine/Cedega as an example of how far *want* goes in the cross-platform arena.

                adam...
                [ Parent ]
              • Re:WorldWind rocks by Ben (Score:1) Tuesday September 27, @04:53AM

              • Re:WorldWind rocks

                (Score:2, Insightful)
                by adamhill (59) on Tuesday September 27, @06:18AM (#29)
                So you dont want to repsond to the facts? They are not opinions. If you have the evidence to shred them please be my guest. I await some links that say Mono is a shared delusion by Miguel and all the other devs and all this code I have isnt *really* running on my computer. Just *one* link that says the Mono RPM"s and Linux Installer are mythical beings like unicorns and hobbits. Please share.

                I dont apologize for MS at all, MS can answer for their own actions. I am concerned with techncal accuracy. You are the one that is making moral claims about MS and made the inital claims of 'evil empire lock-in'. This lock in does not exist, you are free to write as much cross platform, OGL code as you like. I use/program with/for Linux and many other OS apps (MapServer and Apache) on a daily basis and make money off it it, no different than MS tools and OS's. It is tool, like my Makita drill or Craftsman drill. Pick the appropriate tool for the job.

                My points of contention were your OGL and portability claims. You made the statement: ".NET/OGL won't happen unless MS wants it to happen" and made claims that .NET is not portable. There is a large contingent of Mono developers with apps running in OSX and Linux that beg to differ with your opinions. There are OGL .NET projects that you can *go download today*, compile and run.

                I find it incredible that a programmer that wrote something like VTerrain will not beleive code that is running (or not) in front of his face! I refuse to believe you of all people try to *wish* away memory leaks or just refuse to acknowledge other bugs and hope they magically fix themselves. Programming is one of the few reality based occupations in which truth is easily checked by anyone with the means and you can't wish it away. We are not talking about opinion, we are talking about a program using an API or not and running or not.

                Ben, if any of these programs dont exist or dont run on the OS's/APi's I have linked to. I await you pointing it out. I care not about MS's moral compass, this is a technical argument. Quit with the ad hominem and just tell me if the applications are what I have claimed they are.

                Respectfully,

                adam hill...
                [ Parent ]
              • Re:WorldWind rocks by Ben (Score:1) Tuesday September 27, @02:23PM
              • Re:WorldWind rocks by spatialguru (Score:1) Thursday September 29, @01:14PM

              • Re:WorldWind rocks

                (Score:3, Interesting)
                by piradical (211) on Friday October 14, @03:22AM (#114)
                ( Last Journal: Friday October 14, @01:18AM )
                Well, this is an interesting thread. I will be frank right off the bat, and divulge the following information about myself:
                • I think WorldWind is singularly the most amazing program I have come across in about 20 years of computer use. This is subjective, of course
                • I am active in the WorldWind community, and therefore I am heavily biased towards that 'side' of most arguments
                • I get an ugly tight feeling in the pit of my stomach when it comes to Microsoft. Calling them the 'Evil Empire' is a bit weaker than many of my comments of the subject, so I DO have a small 'conflict of bias,' if you will.
                • More than just about anything else I can think of, I believe in the value and moral superiority of Open Source. This is not likely to change.
                • I am known to occasionally rant endlessly on topics of Open Source and web standards-compliance. Many webmasters dread the sight of my email address in their inbox, although I try to be as cordial as possible
                • I, too, wish that WorldWind was not based on C#/.NET/DirectX - I dislike proprietary anything
                • While I don't 'know' Adam, I have spoken with him quite a number of times on IRC - I DO know him to be very credible, openminded, technically astute, humble, helpful, and a lot more- I cannot recall at any point having the impression that he was a 'Microsoft apologist,' or whatever name you wish to give to that effect. Basically, I think Adam represents the finest qualities in any open source community- and he is never pushy about his beliefs, as are many people I run into with his experience and knowledge.
                • In spite of my personal 'friendship' with Adam (or anyone else affiliated with WW, for that matter), I would take an opposing view, if I believed it to be true. I will leave it to the reader to decide the validity of that statement in the context of this thread.
                • Although I have quite a few years of experience on several platforms, I cannot claim to be as technically astute as many people here certainly are. However, I have been around long enough to see many trends come and go, and to appreciate things which last in this world of temporary fixes. For these reasons and others, many of my arguments/comments tend to be on a conceptual or moral basis, rather than purely technical in nature.
                • I like to argue

                So now that I have explained some of my biases (which are mixed, but probably pit me against those who speak poorly of WW, especially when they do it without all the information they need to make their claims), I will get to the points of my argument . . .
                • First of all, ranting about 'Evil Empires' may win arguments in supportive circles, but trust me when I say that such statements carry little credibility in the rest of the world- many of my otherwise solid arguments have failed because I failed to remember this simple truth.
                • In one post, I remember a comment about WorldWind users never being present at open source GIS forums. All I have to say to that is: 'Don't be so sure!' (I, for one am around many places) Also, the comment was to the effect that WorldWind users somehow discourage contact/communication with the Open Source community. That is not only complete BS, but the truth is in fact the other way: the bulk of the Open Source community has snubbed WorldWind simply because it currently uses Microsoft technology. This is stupid, hypocritical, and antithetical to what I have always considered to be the core principles of Open Source - that not only is the code open and free, but that discussion and ideas are allowed to flow freely as well. Some Open Source Nazis are getting a little big for their britches-remember, it is for EVERYONE, not just an exclusive clique.
                • My love of Open Source and dislike of Microsoft does not mean that I automatically reject all Microsoft technology and embrace all Open Source versions- such a viewpoint is very limiting in nature and is one sign of a close-minded individual.
                • I am a geo-fanatic- always have b
                [ Parent ]
        • Re:WorldWind rocks by Anonymous Voxel (Score:0) Wednesday September 28, @01:17PM

  • Spring. Open or Freeware?

    (Score:2, Informative)
    by Daniel Victoria (12) on Tuesday September 27, @08:29AM (#30)
    I know this is a bit picky of me but, I think technically, Spring is a freeware and not open software since the source code is not available. But anyway, it's a good freeware and lots of people in Brazil use it.

    Just to add to the list, INPE (the guys behing Spring) have a real open source project. It's called TerraLib. I never used it myself since I'm no programer, but it's a "GIS classes and functions library" http://www.terralib.org/ [terralib.org]

    As for favorite, I have to say GRASS is impressive, even though I'm the only one here on campus that uses it.

  • Favourite OSS GIS

    (Score:2, Informative)
    by Whisper (73) on Tuesday September 27, @07:34PM (#34)
    Quantum GIS http://www.qgis.org/ [qgis.org]. I haven't fully checked it out yet, but it looks OK.
    PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org/ [postgresql.org] gets my vote as the best spatially enabled open source RDBMS.
    The Virtual Terrain Project http://www.vterrain.org/ [vterrain.org] deserves another honourable mention.

  • PostgreSQL...

    (Score:1, Interesting)
    by Anonymous Voxel on Monday October 10, @04:11PM (#105)
    ...with PostGIS. - Missing a good way to access it from ArcGIS, but still awesome. Really stable, fast DB. I use it with 1.2TB+ of data in production.

    uDig http://udig.refractions.net/ [refractions.net]-more editing and layout tools. Don't know where it's going, but it's definitely a good start. Eclipse can take it anywhere.
    Of course GDAL, OGR, QuantumGIS, GRASS...
    Good projects though - keeps licensing costs down for people who really don't need to use ArcGIS or MapInfo.